| | | Have you seen your horoscope today? | |
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ferval Triumviratus Rei Publicae Constituendae

Posts: 533 Join date: 2011-12-27
 | Subject: Have you seen your horoscope today? Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:40 pm | |
| In another place I mused as to whether there is any other superstition or belief that has lasted, in a recognisable and codified form, as long as astrology. For 4000 years at least the positions and movements of the heavenly bodies have been consulted to predict the affairs of men and the depiction of the zodiac has remained almost unchanged. We no longer, as far as I know, examine entrails for advice but from the astrologers of the modern East to the horoscope in the morning paper people still take notice of what is alleged to be in store for them and act on it. Why has this survived in so unchanged a form for so long?
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|  | | nordmann Dictator

Posts: 738 Join date: 2011-12-25
 | Subject: Re: Have you seen your horoscope today? Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:17 pm | |
| The difference between astrology and astronomy was negligible until comparatively recently. Much of the study and observation of our universe, the groundwork to which modern astronomy owes a debt of gratitude for keeping the discipline running and making the initial important discoveries, was conducted by people who were as inclined to draw astrological conclusions as astronomical ones. Even giants of astronomy, such as Johannes Kepler, earned an income from prognostications based on their observations (800 horoscopes drawn up by Kepler still exist). His prediction for 1595 of a peasant revolt, a Turkish invasion, and extremely cold winter weather - all of which came true - was the basis of his contemporary renown, not his scientific work.
I suspect that in Western Europe at least, under a church which disdained astronomy but employed much astrology in its own internal logic, any serious astronomer had to adopt the guise of an astrologer to pursue his study. And this pattern probably also applied in other great cultures over the millennia.
The psedo-science of astrology, in other words, survived on the back of the actual science of astronomy which - thanks to ignorance on the part of the authorities - was forced to accept this accommodation in order to survive as a discipline. In a weird way then the presence of astrology today is a tribute to the perseverance of people to pursue the truth. |
|  | | ferval Triumviratus Rei Publicae Constituendae

Posts: 533 Join date: 2011-12-27
 | Subject: Re: Have you seen your horoscope today? Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:31 pm | |
| True but I'm particularly intrigued by the survival of the zodiac depictions. The one in the temple at Dendera , or more accurately, the Louvre, or those on the floors of early Judaic synagogues would be immediately recognisable and understandable to almost anyone today. I can't off the top of my head think of any other purely symbolic representation from the time that would be so familiar or require so little explanation to so many people apart from the Christian cross. |
|  | | Gilgamesh of Uruk Consulatus

Posts: 284 Join date: 2011-12-27
 | Subject: Re: Have you seen your horoscope today? Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:38 pm | |
| Jupiter's gone into Orion, and come into conjunction with Mars Saturn is wheeling across infinite space to it's pre-ordained place in the stars And I gaze at the planets in wonder At the trouble and time they spend All to warn me to be careful In dealings involving a friend.
Further to Kepler, was it not he who described astrology as the foolish daughter, without whom the wise mother, astronomy, would starve? |
|  | | Temperance Virgo Vestalis Maxima

Posts: 392 Join date: 2011-12-30
 | Subject: Re: Have you seen your horoscope today? Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:43 pm | |
| People planted and fished according to the positions of the stars from the earliest of times. The fishing I can understand as presumably fish are affected by the tides and currents which really *are* influenced by the moon. But planting your corn when Venus is rising? Lettuce when Mercury enters Pisces? Some farmers and gardeners still swear by astrology, but I remain full of doubt. That said, most of the slugs in my garden seem to have been born with their Mars in the ascendant. Belligerent little so-and-sos.
I was surprised, ferval, by your mention of Zodiac signs in Jewish synagogues - didn't the Jewish prophets (Isaiah?) rail against the evil of consulting astrologers?
Chaucer and Shakespeare were interested in astrology (wasn't everyone?), but both seem to have been amused by the folly of blaming the stars for the flaws in our nature. The funniest speech about belief in astrology is made by one of Shakespeare's most cynical villains, Edmund in King Lear:
"This is the excellent foppery of the world, that, when we are sick in fortune, often the surfeits of our own behaviour, we make guilty of our disasters the sun, the moon, and stars; as if we were villains on necessity, fools by heavenly compulsion, knaves, thieves and treachers by spherical predominance, drunkards, liars and adulterers by an enforc'd obedience of planetary influence; and all that we are evil in, by a divine thrusting on. An admirable evasion of whoremaster man to lay his goatish disposition to the charge of a star!My father compounded with my mother under the dragon's tail, and my nativity was under Ursa major; so that it follows that I am rough and lecherous. Fut! I should have been that I am had the maidenliest star in the firmanent twinkled on my bastardizing."
Which says it all, really! |
|  | | ferval Triumviratus Rei Publicae Constituendae

Posts: 533 Join date: 2011-12-27
 | Subject: Re: Have you seen your horoscope today? Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:40 pm | |
| Zodiacs (astrological, not Ford) have been found as floor mosaics in half a dozen 6-7th c. Galilean synagogues incorporated into designs showing as well, scenes from the OT and depictions of temple impedimenta, principally the menohra and the shofar. Here's one of them from Beit Alpha, isn't it wonderful. I can't decide whether I prefer Leo or Virgo. This is a short piece about this phenomena http://jhom.com/topics/stones/mosaic.htmlI was surprised as well when I was first told about just how decorative the mosaics in these synagogues were; this one from Maon for example although there's no zodiac here.  |
|  | | Giraffe Quaestor

Posts: 34 Join date: 2012-01-16 Location: N. Ireland
 | Subject: Re: Have you seen your horoscope today? Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:27 pm | |
| Temperance - Shakespeare, as usual, said it better than anyone else!
Nothing annoys me more than some soulful idiot gushing over me about 'Capricorn being ascendant in my moon', or something, and it is undoubtedly the influence of Aries in my posterior quadrant that makes me what (they think) I am today. Any old goat or ram coming near MY moon will get a swift boot up the jacksie, I can tell you!
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